I recently had an opportunity to sit down with Professor Barbara McQuade, a double Wolverine and something of a legend among the Michigan Law community, both past and present. When she’s not teaching courses on criminal law and national security, Professor McQuade is offering commentary on MSNBC or publishing op-eds in the nation’s top outlets.
Professor McQuade joined the University of Michigan Law School in 2017 as a Professor from Practice, after a distinguished career as a federal prosecutor at the U.S. Attorney’s Office for the Eastern District of Michigan. Her tenure at the Detroit based office culminated with her appointment to the position of U.S. Attorney by President Barrack Obama in 2009.
I’ve had the privilege of taking several of Professor McQuade’s classes at this point and can attest that she exemplifies the Michigan difference. Professor McQuade takes the time to get to know each of her students on a personal level and is always willing to support them. Whether it’s career advice, pitching a bold idea, or talking about Michigan sports, rest assured, Barb will be there to lend an ear, coffee in hand, sporting a sharp blazer, and maybe even offering a nugget of advice on something she wishes she knew in law school.
Question: Professor McQuade, thanks so much for agreeing to sit down. Can you tell me a little bit about your background?
I graduated from Michigan Law School in 1991. Between college and law school, I worked for one year for a newspaper in Rochester, NY. Most of my life I thought I would be an investigative journalist. I was influenced by Woodward and Bernstein during the Watergate scandal. But I found that being a lawyer is similar to being an investigative journalist — both provide a way to hold powerful people who abuse their power accountable. And I have always found that to be very interesting.
So, after law school, I clerked for U.S. District Judge Bernard Friedman in the Eastern District of Michigan. And then I worked at a law firm, Butzel Long, in Detroit for about 5 years doing commercial litigation. And then I worked as an assistant US Attorney in Detroit for about 12 years, first in the General Crimes Unit, doing just sort of everything that comes across one’s desk, like bank robbery and counterfeiting. And then after the attacks of 9/11 in 2001, the office [set] up its first ever national security unit, and I joined that unit and did national security prosecutions. In 2009, I was appointed US attorney by Barack Obama and served as the US attorney for the Eastern District of Michigan during his administration, and when his term ended, so did mine. And I was fortunate enough to land here at Michigan Law School, my alma mater. I’ve been teaching here since 2017.
What an amazing career. Did you know you wanted to be a prosecutor in law school?
No, not at all! I came to law school very curious about the law, thinking I might even just use my legal knowledge in journalism.
But I found a really liked law school, and so I did at least determine that my interest was in litigation as opposed to other things. I really didn’t know beyond that. It really wasn’t until I was clerking. That was where I got to see the work of a US attorney’s office. And I remember while I was clerking, there was a trial in front of the judge I was clerking for in a public corruption case. The work of the prosecutors was very appealing to me because it seemed very challenging, very important, and very interesting, and [I] thought I would like to do that as well.
Interesting. So I’m noticing some parallels. Which is that this idea of holding the powerful to account and you know, correct me if I’m wrong, but it seems like that’s been a common thread for you professionally, from journalism to law.
Yes, I think that’s right. Watergate is my first memory of news as a child. I didn’t quite understand it, but I knew the President had done something awful and that newspapers and members of Congress were able to rise up and hold this very powerful person accountable. And, abuse of power, whether using physical power, financial power, political power to abuse other people is something that I think is despicable. If we the people have the power to prevent that or to deter it or to hold people accountable when they commit those kinds of abuses, I think that is a very worthwhile endeavor.
Is there a particular case or some memory from your time at the US Attorney’s Office that sticks out to you that you’re particularly proud of?
I think there are a lot of cases I’m very proud of our team for working on, but one that really stands out for me is the case involving the prosecution of a doctor named Farid Fata. Doctor Fada was a cancer doctor in Oakland County, Michigan, who was very successful. But we got a tip from a whistleblower on a Friday afternoon that he was falsely diagnosing patients with cancer when they did not have cancer, so that he could administer expensive chemotherapy treatments to them and make a lot of money.
Our team spent the whole weekend reviewing case files, getting information from Medicare, [and] finding experts to review these materials. And the team determined that the allegations were actually true. They reviewed something like 16 patient files, and 16 out of 16 were being treated for cancer when they did not in fact have cancer. On Monday, they spent the day putting together warrants and a complaint. By Tuesday morning, they had had Farid in custody and seized his seven properties. And the other thing that they took care to do was to find alternate care for all the patients who were expecting to go see him that day or that week for their chemotherapy treatment. The team made sure that patients could get their medical files and the names of other cancer providers in the area so that they could continue their care without interruption. Fata ultimately was convicted of health care fraud and sentenced to 45 years in prison. And although the patients were relieved to find out they didn’t have cancer, many had suffered permanent injuries like loss of hair and teeth or damage to their nervous systems and organs. And not to mention, an incredible breach of trust and the emotional scars that that created.
But it was such an important case, and I was really proud of our team for putting it together. Again, holding someone accountable who was abusing his power. I remember at his plea hearing, the judge asked him whether he was motivated by greed because he billed $34 million in Medicare funds and he profited $17 million from his abuse of these patients. Fata said yes, he was motivated in part by greed, but also by power. He really liked telling patients, “I have good news for you. I’ve cured you. You no longer have cancer.” He enjoyed having that power. I found that absolutely chilling. But I guess it goes back to the theme of the satisfaction of holding powerful people accountable when they abuse their power.
So, you and I both share something in common. We’re both first generation law students. Do you have any words of encouragement for first-gen law students?
I think what I would say to 1st generation students is this: You are not less worthy than anyone else here, and in fact, if anything, you may be more worthy because you had to work harder to get here than some of your peers. I think that an important measure of a person is not how far they rise, but how far they have come. And when you think about some of the obstacles that you have had to figure it out in life on your own, you should be proud. You had to figure out how to apply to college, you had to figure out how to apply to law school, you had to figure out how to find summer jobs. Whereas some — not all, but some — students who were fortunate enough to have prior generations in their families who have graduated from law school or other professional schools, they have sort of a built-in network that first-gen students lack.
And so, I hope that it is empowering to first generation law students to realize that just getting to law school is an accomplishment. Congratulations, you’ve done a lot. And that doesn’t mean that’s the end of your success but only your beginning. The fact that you were able to figure out how to get here means that you’ve got some wherewithal and some willingness to roll up your sleeves and figure stuff out that will serve you well as lawyers.
You wrote a book about disinformation called Attack from Within: How Disinformation Is Sabotaging America. Have you noticed any changes in the disinformation space since you published it?
Yes. If I were to sum it up in a word what has changed, it’s “more.” One of the things that we’ve seen since the book was published just about a year ago is [the] increasing use of artificial intelligence to promote disinformation.
As we talked about in our national security class, last summer, the Department of Justice initiated a couple of cases, one involving a Russian group called Döppelganger, that was able to use artificial intelligence to create fake web pages of the Washington Post and Fox News, purporting to report stories that promoted Russian talking points. One report said that financial markets were skittish over U.S. investment in Ukraine in its war with Russia. Apparently fake user accounts pushed those fake webs pages on social media. So, if anybody were to click the link, they would see what looked like a legitimate article. Depending on your political persuasion, you might find one of those articles to be very meaningful and persuasive. I thought that was quite disturbing. And then during the election we saw artificial intelligence used to create fake robo-calls from Joe Biden, urging voters to stay home from the polls and a fake video of Kamala Harris claiming to be the ‘Ultimate DEI candidate’ and other things that were disparaging to her and Biden. I also think that some of the actions of the current [Trump] administration are premised on false claims and disinformation.
For example, there’s been an accusation that the last Department of Justice weaponized law enforcement by going after the January 6th defendants. These are people who’ve committed serious crimes on January 6th, assaulting police officers. Yet all of them received a pardon. And agents and prosecutors who worked on those cases are now finding themselves under fire with what I believe to be false claims that they somehow weaponized the Department of Justice. There’s a statement in one of President Trump’s executive orders that says, “One man was even prosecuted simply for posting a meme online.” I think I know the case he’s talking about. A man was prosecuted for posting online a fake image that said, “Did you know you can vote by texting this number?” and people actually did that and wasted their votes. So, he was charged with conspiracy to violate voter rights, which is not just for posting a meme, but a meme designed to defraud voters. In my view, that is an appropriate prosecution, but President Trump is trying to convince people it was outrageous. So, there’s a germ of truth there, but it’s far more than meets the eye. I think so often this disinformation is an effort to provide cover or motivation for acts that people would otherwise find objectionable.
With all that’s going on in the world, it’s easy to get sucked into the news cycle. What do you do to unplug?
For me, physical activity is what always gets my mind off everything. I love to play tennis, and when I’m playing tennis, I’m just thinking about hitting the ball and where I need to run to next, which is great because it focuses your mind on something other than things that might be disturbing in the news. I like to ski, too. Same thing when you’re skiing downhill, you have to worry about not running into the other people on the hill. And so that occupies my focus. I like to swim, and I like to run, any sort of physical activity I find to be very useful, and I like to read for pleasure. Like most people, I spend far too much time on my phone reading the news. But I have found a renewed pleasure in reading hardbound books. I used to read books a lot on my iPad, and I found myself constantly being interrupted with notifications alerting me as to what’s in the news. And so, setting that aside and just reading a good book. I like to read biographies, I like to read history, I like to read some fiction, but something just completely apart from what’s happening in the world, I find to be very comforting. It’s a good way to unwind at the end of the day.
And I’m a diehard fan of Michigan sports and Detroit team sports! So, it’s always fun to cheer them on.
Did you have a particular favorite for the Super Bowl?
Not particularly. I do appreciate teams that can do unique things. Because of that, the idea of a Chiefs’ three-peat was sort of intriguing, and I really like Patrick Mahomes because I think he is a generational talent and I think he’s so innovative. But wow, the Eagles absolutely dominated, so it was not the Chief’s day. So that’s fun too. I mean the adage that on any given Sunday, any team can win still rings true — the Eagles were dominant.
What’s your go-to restaurant in Ann-Arbor?
Oh, that’s tough. Probably Blue Tractor. I love barbecue. What’s yours?
Frita Batidos! It’s so good. Load it up.
Oh, me too! My family loves it. We’re a Frita’s family. Every time my son comes home, we go there, it’s so good!
You follow in a long line of women in public service with distinguishable signature looks. Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg had her collars, Secretary Madeleine Albright had her lapel pins, and you, Professor McQuade, have your blazers. How did that come about?
[Laughs] Yeah, you know, when I worked in the federal government, it was much more suits — originally suits with skirts, and it evolved toward pantsuits.
But, when I got here to the law school, I saw that the ethos was a little more casual. I find that if you throw a blazer over black pants and a shirt you can dress up any outfit. I like to come across in the classroom that I take my job to teach seriously by looking somewhat professional, but maybe, it’s not quite as intimidating as the navy-blue suit that I wore when I was in the courtroom. So that’s the idea. I have accumulated blazers over the seven years I have worked here at the law school, and so from time to time, I’ll pick one up.
I did not know that was a thing, I’m flattered!
Yeah, it’s widely respected.
[Laughs] Well, thank you so much! This was such a fun interview!
Res Gestae Contributor Mike Vandergriff can be reached at mikevand@umich.edu.
